Isaac (00:10): What is up everybody? Id care with Civil Engineering Academy. Excited to be with you on another podcast episode. Thanks for liking these. Thanks for subscribing leaving comments, all that jazz helps us out a lot. So if you are enjoying these, share 'em with your civil friends, and we definitely appreciate that. So today I bring a special guest on. He is actually the husband of a previous interview I did with Kim Trong. She was a student of our course, was able to pass her PE exam, but has been living on military bases around. And so she referenced her husband, whose name is Jason Er, and he is actually in the military as well. He's with the Navy working in the Pentagon on awesome stuff. So, traveling the world as part of the Navy, you'll find out that we have 70 Navy bases. And so these are treated like full on cities with all kinds of infrastructure projects.

Isaac (01:00): And we talk in detail about programs that the Navy has in recruiting civil engineers, whether you're in school or whatnot, in helping you pay for your schooling while making a salary, the time commitment that you have to do with the Navy and all of that jazz. And really just his experience working in the Navy as a, as a civil engineer. And he's actually a mechanical engineer, so that's unique as well. But he's a professional engineer, got his pe got his master's as well, and has just done a variety of awesome projects all over the world. And we talk about his time also in Okinawa and why he loved it there so much. So anyway, it's a fascinating interview. If you've had any interest in joining the Navy or a military and learning about the benefits of, of joining and how that can help further your career, then this is gonna be one you're gonna be interested in listening to. So without further ado, I'm gonna go ahead and shut up. We'll get right to my interview with Jason right after this. See you in a minute. All right, Jason, we're rocking and rolling. Thanks for joining me today on the Civil Engineering Academy podcast. Appreciate you doing this with me.

Jason (02:03): Yeah, thanks for having me.

Isaac (02:06): Well, I'm excited to have you on. We actually interviewed your wife just recently, and she passed her exam. Wanted to bring her on to talk about that, but as part of that, she said it'd be really interesting to interview my husband Jason, and kinda get his experience because I think some of the, the avenues you went through, maybe opportunities for other civil engineers that they've never maybe even thought about. So I'm sure we'll dive into that. But maybe just to kick this off, give us a little bit of background about what, what you do and, and maybe how you got there.

Jason (02:44): Sure. Yeah. So I'm a I'm a engineer in the Navy active duty. Been doing this for almost 20 years now. My rank is currently a oh five or a commander, which is fairly senior, but now when you work in the Pentagon . But you know, I started off, I was, I went to UCLA for undergraduate school halfway through I went to a job fair and the Navy had a desk, and I just went over there to talk to him. My dad's prior naive Navy, so I was kind of familiar with the Navy, but you know, I was going on, what do you guys got? What are you offering? And the recruiter said, Hey, you know I got this program for engineers. You know, there's, there's actually a couple programs. You can either become a civil engineer or you could become a, a nuclear engineer.

Jason (03:33): And now in the civil engineer, when I say civil engineer, they take all engineering types. You don't have to be actually a civil engineer. So I'm a mechanical as my background and said, okay, let's check it out. You know, they always say the recruiters, you know, they always lie to you, right? But the funniest thing for me was when I first got in, they, I went to the recruiter's office and they had a big picture and it said it was a picture of a, of a guy on a bulldozer driving a bulldozer in a big field. And it said our engineers don't work in cubicles. And I said, oh, wow. That's, that's awesome. You know, that's a great way to advertise. And of course, the first day on the job, you know, I was shown to my cubicle.

Speaker 2 (04:11): But other than that it's, it was a great way to get into the military. First, you know, two years in school, they actually paid for school. So I actually had a job. They would pay me, pay me as a soldier or a, a sailor as well as paying for school. So it was quite a, quite a, you know, nice way to get through your last two years of school and not have to worry about debt or, you know you know, paying down your, your that's amazing. Your rent or anything like that. Yeah. You owed them, I think it was, I owed him four years after that. And I, I always thought I'd be a four year guy, get out, go do something else. And then here I am. Yeah. 20 years later. Let's

Speaker 1 (04:50): Back up to that. Sounds like a benefit of joining the Navy. Was payment paying of school, you said the first two years was paid for?

Speaker 2 (05:01): Yeah. they got a couple programs out there, but basically up to two years while you're in school, they'll pay you a salary and pay for your school. So you don't, you know you owe them some time afterwards. They do the same thing for some doctors and lawyers as well, which is a great way to go through medical school if you're trying to become a doctor. But for engineers I think it's, they changed the name now, now it's called a civil engineer collegiate program. Then you could Google that, you can find it on the navy.com. And and if you want more information, you go talk to your local recruiter and say, I'm interested in the civil engineer collegiate program. Or if you wanna go to submarine and be a nuclear engineer, you can say, I'm interested in the nuclear program as well. But the civil engineer program was, you know, very interesting to me. And I was, I was always the guy that already had a job, you know, while you're in school, didn't have to worry about job hunting or you know, all the, all the things that everyone's doing towards the end of school, trying to sort of find a place to go.

Speaker 1 (06:00): That's awesome. Yeah. I'm sure many people are interested in that, but just kind of high level, could you say kind of what that commitment looks like on the, on the backend? And then you said it's paid, so is that, I, I don't imagine it's a huge salary, but it's paid, but what does that, again, range look

Speaker 2 (06:19): Like? Yeah, so the, the first two years that you're in school, you get paid as enlisted. So like, basically you do like an think it's an E 3 84 which is, you know, the scale of enlisted. And then once you finish school, you go to Officer Candidate School, which is a 12 week program. Now it's in Rhode Island. And you go up there and you basically learn how to become an officer. You know, you wear the uniform, you yelled at a little bit kind of like an officer bootcamp. And then once you're done with that which can be a little painful, but you know, it's an interesting experience. Once you're done with that, then you owe four years. And as an officer and the pays, you know, pretty good, I think compared to what you'd get on the outside as a junior engineer, you know, I'd have to look up the pay tables, but they're all publicly available. But I think because I think maybe the, the, the navy or the military salary maybe plateaus a little bit quicker than the private industry. But at the beginning, you're, you're making, I would say probably more than your counterparts you know, for the first few years as well as some great experience. I mean, you know,

Speaker 1 (07:31): Yeah. Let's maybe dive into that a little bit. So, I mean, the, the benefits sound really, really nice. I mean, if anyone's going through school and you can get some of that schooling paid for, plus you're getting paid. I, I think that's super nice. What so your background's mechanical, but the work you're mainly doing with civil, what does that look like? What is the work that you're doing in the Navy as a civil?

Speaker 2 (07:58): Sure. as when you, there's basically three kind of areas that a Navy Civil Engineer Corps works in. Either you're working in public works, so there's 70 installations across the globe, right? 70 Navy installations. And each one of these are basically a city, right? So you basically have public works department, just like you would in a, in a city. And you work in that public works department, you know, either managing projects, structure planning utilities, you know, everything that you possibly have to do in a city you do on a base. And sometimes, sometimes you do this in locations that are, you know, outside the us right? So it's a little more complicated even sometimes. And then the kind of second area is on the contract management side, where you are basically a government contracting officer. So you give some authority to award contracts, negotiate contracts for the government up to a certain threshold.

Speaker 2 (08:56): And then the third area is like the expeditionary side, which is more your traditional military. When you think military, you know, you're, you had a battalion a construction battalion, so you may have heard of the cbs, the CBS famous, you know, I always say, I, I always point people to World War, world War ii, go watch the John Wayne movie, you know, the fighting cbs, the famous movie that's probably folks these days I've never heard of. But quite entertaining. They were kind of cbs, were kind of the people, kind of the force that that led the island h hopping campaign across the Pacific during World War ii, building all the airfield ports, you know, all those kind of things that were necessary to, to, you know, fight that war. So you'll be put in a CCB battalion, you'll be in charge of, you know, a, a platoon you know, or a whole company of troops.

Speaker 2 (09:44): CCB battalion is like 600, 600 cbs. As an officer, you're in charge of a section of enlisted folks. And yeah, you go do construction projects. Sometimes, you know, I've been to, I was in Africa building schools and clinics you know, during peace time. We do a lot of humanitarian type work during war, you know, in Afghanistan, I didn't go to Afghanistan, a lot of friends that did, we do a lot of you know base building, basically like going to the middle of nowhere and establishing a, a Ford operating base holding security, building barriers, those kind of things. Kind of expeditionary type work, say there's, there's quite a, you know, quite a selection of, of work you could do. But again, it's not, not just civil engineering, it's civil engineering related. But as a mechanical, I've used my expertise you know, fluids and thermal was my, what I tested in right during the, the, the pe.

Speaker 2 (10:38): And so I've used some of that. You know, looking at when I worked in a hospital, for instance, I worked in a, a navy hospital, and I was kind of in charge of the facilities for the whole hospital as a young lieutenant. You know, I was 28 years old, and they say, Hey, you're in charge of this hospital when it comes to the facilities, that's a pretty big job, especially when you've never worked in a hospital before. Right. And but you know, being mechanical, I was able to talk to all the HVAC issues, all the, you know, the ga medical gas issues in the hospital, all the, the chillers, you know, the absorption chillers we got, it was steam absorption. We've got backup generator power that we'd work on. We've got liquid oxygen, you know, tanks and all those kind of specialty areas that you know, they're related to, to facilities, but are really just all aspects of engineer really. So,

Speaker 1 (11:34): Man, that's amazing. Was there, has there been a favorite location that you enjoyed serving?

Speaker 2 (11:41): Absolutely. I loved Japan. I've, I've, I've been there twice. So I've spent four years there, two years back in 2014. And then I, I just recently got back from there in 2021. I was there Wow. In, in Mayland and then also in Okinawa. So got the island life as well as the city life. Beautiful place to live you know, beautiful culture. And how does opportunity, you know, when it comes to, to work, so do

Speaker 1 (12:11): You speak the language? Do you speak Japanese?

Speaker 2 (12:15): I don't I mean, I took classes, but not fluent . It's funny you say that though, because I did, the Navy did send me to school for French back in T 2008. Wow. I was part of what I was going to an expeditionary job, and this is not very common, but they had I was going to an expeditionary job and they said, Hey, we got space at the Defense Language Institute. Do you wanna learn French? And I said, sure, take me to French. So I learned French, and then I actually ended up using it. I went to Haiti. I was in Haiti right after the earthquake in 2011. Like you know, I mean quarter prince,

Speaker 1 (12:49): Port

Speaker 2 (12:49): Princes. I was there, you know, two days after the earthquake. 'cause January 12th, I think was the earthquake, right. And I was there two days afterwards doing a lot of assessments. So looking at buildings and saying, you know, I'm not a civil or structural, but I was probably better than what they had. So I was like, look at these buildings, look for major structural deficiencies and say, Hey, that thing, I would not send anyone in that building. You guys should probably stay out of it. You know that kind of masonry. Yeah, a lot of really boundary reinforced, a lot of, I mean, they, a lot of it was reinforced, but with like welded wire fabric instead of rebar, you know, and, and, and then they used too much. The, the stones they used were, were all like river rock. It's a real smooth stone. So the aggregate is just not holding the concrete together. And in some cases, the, even the la even the cement they used wasn't great. So sometimes you could pick it up and you could actually break it in your hand and you say, listen, you know, this does not be any, no, this, this is not your 3000 PSI spec, you know, concrete you can get here in the States. So

Speaker 1 (13:55): That's amazing. Well wow. I, I just, the aspect of traveling all over, so you've been now there for how many years?

Speaker 2 (14:09): I've been in for 20 I've moved 10 times in 20 years. So basically every two years they've, we pick up and move. So that's one of the kind of the, the downsides, or it could be an upside if you enjoy moving and traveling and they say, join the Navy, you know, see the world. I mean, you really do. They, they want you to get around, see all the bases be different locations and really you know, you get used to kind of moving a lot.

Speaker 1 (14:39): So when you're not moving, I mean, you have a home, I'm assuming, or do you just like, Hey, but let's, if we're mobile, we would just wanna be in an apartment or something because we're gonna get called out in two years anyway.

Speaker 2 (14:51): Yeah, I've actually been one of those guys that tried to buy wherever I went, and then tried to turn that into investment and, you know later on, sell it, rent it, sell it. And actually, this actually worked out pretty well kind of slowly building up and, you know, I'm over time, so you, you could still buy a house, you know, it's definitely a thing. You just know that you may not be there more than two years the first time, and maybe you'll come back to it someday or, you know, or rent it out.

Speaker 1 (15:19): Makes sense. So what drove you to stay longer? Because you said it's a four year commitment. I imagine you could've gotten out and then done something else, but what drew your attention to staying longer?

Speaker 2 (15:34): That's a great question. You know, a lot of times the Navy will dangle something in front of you that you want, like you didn't realize you wanted it. And they say, Hey, I'll send you to San Diego for two years. You can go serve with this special warfare Navy Seals. And I like, what? Really? Yeah, I'll do that. You know, that sounds great. Or, Hey, I'll send you to Japan and you can go live in Tokyo, outside of Tokyo. So really, I think they're pretty good at, at working with you when you are about ready to get out and, you know, basically give you a couple options and say, what are you, what are you looking for? You know if it's money, sometimes money is, is the motivator. And sometimes the Navy can't maybe as more senior pay as much as some other locations, but there's plenty of benefits, you know, you know, at, to being in the military that are kind of non-monetary. And so those add up. And yeah, just really enjoying the journey, you know, kind of being able to go see a new place, go experience something new, you know, not stick in one place for 10, 15 years and get bored. So

Speaker 1 (16:41): I love it. And there's probably a benefit for staying longer, right. You said, I mean, can you retire after, is it 20 years or what's the, the number there?

Speaker 2 (16:51): Yeah, so 20 years is the, is the current kind of retirement age as far as you get your pension. So under the old system, which I'm under, you get 50% of your salary. As soon as you get out, you just get that forever. So until you die and the new system, which is a blended system, it's closer to a 401k type retirement system, but it's still pretty generous. And they say it's not any worse or better than the old system. So they'll get a pension of some sort.

Speaker 1 (17:23): I mean, you could literally have a second career then even if you served 20 years in the Navy. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (17:29): Yeah. I, I

Speaker 1 (17:30): Mean,

Speaker 2 (17:33): Absolutely. And most mo and most people do. I mean, that's, that's the standard, right? Because I'm only, you know, I'm 40 years old, I'm not gonna stop working altogether. I mean, I could, but I'd probably have to move to the, you know, Philippines or so Yeah. Cheaper, you know, cheaper quality. Yes. Cost of living. So

Isaac (17:49): That's awesome. Well, let's talk a little bit about your roles. I mean, if, if people are going in as a civil engineer you're an officer now, I mean, what, what's the, how, how have your roles changed as you've moved up in, in that Sure. In the position you're in?

Jason (18:06): Yeah, I mean, in the beginning you're really working on that, on the project level, you know they'll assign you, you know, eight to 10 projects and you're really involved in those specific projects. But as you kinda get more senior, you start getting leadership roles. Like you, you got people under you pretty quickly. And the, you know, kind of the, the pyramid is really, is real, right? So you, you just, as you go, you just basically, you're getting promoted every few years and you become more senior and you get more responsibility and more, more more stuff under your belt. I mean, right now, for instance, I work at the Pentagon and I'm the military construction, the military construction analyst for the Navy. There's only one. And I manage the military construction budget for the Navy. So it's a budgeting, a programming type job versus a, you know, tactical engineering project level type job. But I mean, it's, you know, three to $5 billion a year, which, you know, the wfs you know, kinda what you start with when you're doing a small project, of course. You know, I don't get to see any of that. I'm just the, you know, the analyst. But but yeah, it's, it's interesting. It definitely, the, the scope just gets bigger and bigger as you go up,

Isaac (19:18): Man. What kind of skills have you seen maybe as a starting engineer versus as an, as an officer, as you've moved up what are some skills that maybe engineers should be honing in on or being more aggressive on learning that maybe when they started they, they just weren't polished on?

Jason (19:38): Yeah, I think, you know, for me when I first got in and I first got a project, you know, when you're in school, they don't really, I took a couple CAD classes, but it, it wasn't a lot of reading drawings, at least for mechanical. And we got a lot of, you know, they, they throw a set of drawings in front of me and I have to figure out how to read them. 'cause I never really had a lot of classes on just reading them, not making them, but just reading them and understanding all in day nuances on the drawings. So I think that skill is, is definitely very important, especially when you're not actually making the drawings. You're more of like the, the construction manager or the, the project manager on something. And then also being able to translate what you see or, you know, engineer, speak to non-engineers.

Jason (20:21): 'Cause A lot of times you're talking to your boss who may not be an engineer or the, you know, the installation commanding officer, for instance, who may be like, similar to what you would call like a, you know, the mayor of the city, right? He's not an engineer. So you gotta be able to explain what, what you see, what you're doing in a way that they can understand, you know, in very simplistic terms. You, I don't wanna say like kindergarten, but basically you, you're, you're gonna gonna bring it down to a level that, that most basic, you know, anybody can understand. And I think that's, that's definitely a, a learned skill, right? That's, that's not something you, you're, you, you start, you, you, you do at school, it's kind of on the job, but definitely a very important skill.

Isaac (21:02): That makes sense. What do you find is the hardest part about what you do now?

Jason (21:09): At least what I do in the Pentagon right now, probably the hardest part is going from, you know, my last job in Okinawa, I was in charge of a thousand people. I was the public works officer for Marine Corps Base Camp Butler, which is basically all the Marine Corps bases in Okinawa. You know, I had a thousand people under me. I felt like I was like, you know, in charge of everything. It was, it was really it was a challenge, but also extremely you know, it, it was, it was very rewarding. And then I got to this job and, and I have nobody under me. And so the challenge I have is, it's, it's you really humbly experience. You go from kind of thinking you're important and then coming to a place where the real important people are like, you know, forest star generals and admirals and in, in that type. So, you know, just getting per some perspective, and and you know, this job is, is really more of a, a lesson in like major program and budgeting management versus and what I, what I in generally prefer is the project level. You know, I really like the managing projects and still on being able to talk to the details and, you know, I think is something that I've had to really adjust to. So,

Isaac (22:21): You know, based on your experience, and maybe this applies to other, other people, but as you look to possibly retire, what positions would you be interested in, in coming back to, you know, life outside of the Navy? And I'm sure there are other people that are listening to this that maybe in a similar boat, but what, what are your, what's your thought process on that on trying to, I guess, look for a position if you, when you get out of the Navy?

Jason (22:50): Yeah, I mean, the good thing about the Civil Engineer Corps is that your skills are extremely marketable on the outside. Like there's a direct lake to what we do inside versus outside. And, and that's not the same for us in the Navy, right? You can be in charge of a ship and it's a little harder to get outside and do something like that. So, mm-hmm, for me, I mean, I think I'm looking at working for an architect engineer firm is probably the top, you know, I'd probably end up at looking at jacobs already com, you know, one of those big AE firms. A lot of folks go towards higher education. Actually. It's also a popular route. You know, becoming a, you know, director of capital improvements at a, at a college or university is also a great job. Or a hospital, you know, I have some hospital experience, so I may go back to a hospital, do a facility and management for a hospital. But yeah, tons of opportunities really. You gotta figure out what you want to do, you know, what, what, what makes you tick, and then kind of pursue that. And I don't know if I've quite found the exact thing that I wanna do yet, but I got about a year to figure it out. So definitely be thanks. Yeah. Yeah.

Isaac (23:56): Well, I, I've, I've always wanted to ask people this, but like, I know you've got some unique challenges. Has there been anything that's frustrated you in, in working in the Pentagon and the position that you're in? I imagine, I mean, everyone has frustrations in in the work they do, everyone does, no matter where they're at. But I'm just curious, what are kinda your unique frustrations maybe you're dealing with?

Jason (24:18): Yeah, just the, you know, mixing politics in with business in the military is, is always well, can be frustrating 'cause we get our money from Congress and so we've gotta work with Congress. And of course, Congress represents their cons, constituents, so they're interested in their districts. So sometimes what may not make the most sense ends up happening because one congressman or another is really interested in something. So you know, we'll do a project because they've got so much interest versus maybe we don't have as much of interest in that project. And the bureaucracy is real. I mean, it's heavy. So you've gotta learn how to work through that. And you know, that it works. It's just, it's a little slower than maybe most people would want. And it's like a, it's basically just a really large corporation, right? So some people don't wanna work for large corporations for that exact reason. You know, they wanna work for a small company 'cause they can get stuff done quick. There's less procedures involved, less rules. So it's kind of basically your big, big big company versus small company kind of mentality. And that's, that's kinda how I look at it.

Isaac (25:27): That's very interesting. And I'm, I'm curious you know, a lot of our viewers for time, we're recording this, we're in election season. Does much change when there is a change of, I mean, I'm not predicting anything, but if there is ever a change of presidency, how does that affect what you're doing on the daily?

Jason (25:46): Yeah, so it doesn't affect me too much on the daily. But basically there are a bunch of appointed physicians in the Pentagon. And those folks may or may not rotate out, right? So they get a, a new appointee comes in, and those appointees will have different you know, goals or, or different prerogatives that they're gonna follow. So our current, you know, for our current assistant secretary of the Navy for installations, you know, she's focused on energy and, and resiliency and those type of things which are related to climate change. The next administration, if there is one, who knows, you know, they could, could put a kibosh on the whole thing or they could pivot and focus on something else. And so we've always gotta be ready for that. And, you know, and we in the military are apolitical, right? We, we don't, we don't talk about our, our, our political leadings and we, we just kind of move forward and, and do whatever the administration kind of tells us to do. So that's kind of where we're at with that.

Isaac (26:43): Okay. I was just curious about that how those things change guard and things of that nature. But yeah. I wanna back up a little bit. So if I'm in the Navy, I, I've got my bachelor's degree, I, let's say I wanted to get a master's degree, but I'm, you know, I'm, I'm in Okinawa, or I want to pass my PE exam or something like that. Is there an avenue to still do those things while you're still in the Navy? Do you, do you have to do an online class to get a master's if you wanted to go that route? And what's the exam process? If you're serving on a base, imagine they have a way to to do that. So you can still earn your, your PE license. But kind of high level, how do you keep growing your credentials in your career while you're serving?

Jason (27:32): Yeah, great question. So the Civil Engineer Corps, first of all, requires you to have a PE in order to promote and a master's degree, and they'll send you to get your master's. So I was also sent to get my master's at UCLA after, you know, 10 years in the military. And they said, Hey, Ty, for you to get your master's, went back to school. That's where I met my wife, , you know. Wow. And, and in the master's program, and I chose civil engineering, the, the water resources program, just 'cause I wanted to try something different. And they'll send you for a year, they'll pay for that school and pay you a full salary while you're there. So, and you owe some time after that. I think it's three years after that you owe as far as staying in the military.

Jason (28:17): And then for your pe they obviously, 'cause it's required for you to promote, they really encourage you to, to take any prep classes you need. If you gotta go home and study for something for a test, they'll usually, they'll let you take a little time for that. I was on deployment in south America on a ship, and I was studying, you know, an hour a day for a good three months. And then I came back and took the test and I passed the first time and I was super happy. But if you're overseas, you could take the test, you know, they have testing Pearson, testing centers, that type of thing all over the world, and you can usually take that test wherever you're living. No problem.

Isaac (28:55): That's awesome. So I mean, there doesn't seem like there's a lot of downside to, to joining and getting all the, the, the perks of joining the Navy and doing this, this program. So is there any advice you would give to anybody that's considering joining this program and maybe some tips you may have for them?

Jason (29:17): Yeah, I think, I mean, there are some cons, right? So fa the family situation's a little bit tough, like if you've got kids moving a lot when as they get older, we don't have any kids right now, but if we did, I've seen a lot of families have some, some trouble with moves all the time. But as far as advice, I mean, you know, I, I think whether you go into the military, you go do something on the outside, just really enjoy the, the journey kind of the, the doing of the things versus where you're trying to go. You know, once you get to that end goal, you're gonna realize that you know, what really was important was how you got there and, and the things you'd experienced on the way. And I think that's kind of what, you know, I really taken from this 20 years is, you know, retirement wasn't really the end goal. It was like doing all those things on the way.

Isaac (30:05): Yeah, that makes sense. So man, this has been awesome, very insightful, just to hear your perspective on things what you're working on working in the Pentagon and this program. So if if anybody was out there and they wanted to connect with you, would, is there a way to connect with you or would you point 'em to, to go talk to some re recruiting group that they could go sign up and do this?

Jason (30:31): Yeah, I mean anytime you could connect with me on LinkedIn I think maybe you can share my profile or it just, you look up my name, you'll see me in my photo, I'm in my uniform. But as far as if you're looking to join to actually join the military or, or get more information, go to your local recruiter of office and tell 'em about the civil engineer collegiate program. Tell 'em you're interested. You know, they're, they're fairly selective. I mean, you can still have a good GPA and you gotta, you gotta, you gotta be a good student. But but it's definitely doable. If, if that's what you want to do and definitely encourage, check it out.

Isaac (31:03): Okay. And there are age restrictions too.

Jason (31:05): Yeah. Mean the maximum age is like 36 or something to join the military and then, okay. Yeah. but usually outta college it's kind of our, our you know, pri primary kind of focus.

Isaac (31:20): Got it. Awesome. Well Jason, thank you for doing this with me. Like I said, this has been an awesome interview. I'm fascinated by the program. I wish it was something I knew about when I was in school. So hopefully those listening can take advantage of this program and further your career. So appreciate you, you doing this with me. Yeah,

Jason (31:38): Of course. Anytime. Thank you.

Isaac (31:40): Alright, we'll see you later.