Speaker 1 (00:00):

Isaac (00:09): What is up everybody? Isaac here with Civil Engineering Academy. Thanks again for checking us out. If you're finding us at this weird corner of the internet, I appreciate you listening to these things, Sharon, with a friend. Give us a like, give us a subscribe, all that jazz. Leave a comment about it, . We, we enjoy those things, so appreciate you tuning in again today. Today I bring another guest on. He is a repeater Matt Ella. He actually is part of our civil engineering academy team who specializes in water and environmental. And so I wanted to bring him on because I wanted to hear his journey into taking the water resources engineering exam of the, for the pe, as well as some new tools we are developing for the Environmental FE and pe. That's kind of a, a niche within a niche, almost a little bit because a lot of people that are in water resources end up debating which of those exams to take.

Isaac (00:59): So I wanted to bring him on and find out his experience of why he chose one or the other, why someone would want to dive into the environmental exam and some of the tools that we have coming out for you. One of them is an environmental PE exam that is available now. You can check that [email protected]. We'll also eventually have an FE exam. And in the future probably in 2025, we'll have a course built for the environmental PE exam as well. All built by Matt, who is doing an awesome job in the environmental world. So I also as a certified floodplain manager, which we have a course for that as well. So if you're interested in any of those things, check it all [email protected]. So today we're gonna heavily discuss the differences between the WRE exam, the water resources, water resources and environmental exam, and the environmental exam.

Isaac (01:46): It's a tongue twister, and there's also a lot of confusion surrounding those two exams as to why you would pick one over the other if you're in that world. So Matt's gonna explain it all. We hear his journey and why we would choose one or the other. And I think it's really gonna help you if you're find yourself in this space. So, without further ado, let me get outta the way and let's get to this episode with Matt coming right up after this. See you in a minute. This is alright. We're rocking and rolling. Matt, thanks for jumping again on the Civil Engineering Academy podcast. I appreciate you doing this with me. Absolutely. Thanks Isaac. Always happy to come in and share our thoughts. I know we've covered a lot of topics over the years and I'm great to be sit back down and be back with you again.

Isaac (02:25): So thanks for the opportunity. Yeah, thanks for doing this. Matt's a big piece of our team. He's helping on the water resources side, helping on the environmental side, helping with CFM certified Floodplain Manager. So he is, he's helping with a lot of stuff. So one of the things we got together and wanted to chat about though is kind of, I think there's a lot of confusion around the water resources PE exam and those that end up wanting to choose maybe the environmental PE exam. And so we wanted to come on and talk about those differences. Also talk about some resources that we've developed that we have for you. But let's maybe kick that off as maybe the first thing to talk about is what do you think are the specific challenges in the engineering field that kind of led to the creation of having a dedicated water resources PE exam and a dedicated, I guess, environmental exam?

Matt (03:23): Sure. Great. Great question to start us off. So I think if we look at the PE water resources exam specs you know, looking through those specs, have them here in front of me and, you know, you notice they focus on areas, hydrology, wastewater, treatment, infrastructure design, and looking at the content. The first thing that speaks to me when I look at those topics is that the content of the exam is stemming from the complex challenges that we face in the modern day water resources field. You know, we look at water distribution systems, you know, drinking water or potable water. You know, ever since, you know, Flint, Michigan you know, there's been the big push to upgrade systems, you know, the lead pipe initiatives you know, lead replacement mandates from EPA updated regulation. So, you know that that's a big topic right now that's driving a lot of the water distribution systems side of the House of Water resources.

Matt (04:17): You know, we look at wastewater treatment, you know, new treatment technologies are emerging you know, beneficial we use of biomaterials. We have, you know, increased you know, regulations on emissions thresholds, increased emissions on, excuse me, increased regulations on water quality standards. You know, more and more stringent total maximum daily load TMDL requirements. I think I did a blog post about that Mm-hmm. On the CEA website a while back. You know, and so those, those regulations are clamping down. You know, we also have increased levels of infiltration and inflow into the pipe systems, you know, underneath the streets in our communities for the sanitary sewer systems. You know, that's a byproduct of aging infrastructure. So when it rains, water is entering these pipes from rainwater in addition to the daily sewer flows that they're carrying to the treatment plants. And either the, the pipes themselves or the treatment plants are overwhelmed.

Matt (05:13): You know, they're designed to carry a maximum you know, MGD, you know, treatment threshold each day. And so if the threshold say is 80 million gallons per day of the treatment plant and it rains, and that introduces additional liquids into the system, then at that point, you know, you're pushing 90 MGDA hundred MGD, however much that rainstorm added that's causing problems at the treatment plant. Right. you know, I look at stormwater management and flood control, the hydrology components of the water resource exam. And, you know, I think we talked about it too when we talked about the Certified Flood Plane Manager course we launched late last fall. We're on the podcast talking about the increased frequency and duration of the rainstorms. We're seeing weather events are becoming more severe, more intense. So, you know, we see flooding in areas that haven't flooded beforehand.

Matt (06:03): My own family actually was impacted by a storm just a couple weeks ago in Florida. They were outside the 500 year floodplain, didn't have flood insurance, didn't need flood insurance, but you know, their whole house was wiped out. You know, they've had a cut drywall back up to, you know, three feet and, you know, total loss and replace all of that. So we're seeing flooding in areas that didn't previously flood, things like that. And so all of these topics that are covered by the exam specs, I think reflect the modern challenges faced by the water resources industry. And I think the ultimate goal is to equip the engineers and professionals that are studying for their PE exam currently to be able to tackle these challenges and develop sustainable solutions. You know, whether they take the civil water resources PE exam or the environmental PE exam.

Isaac (06:52): Okay. so, you know, I'm a civil engineer. I work in water resources. I'm looking between these two exams to better help equip me for a better maybe it's better for my position at work. Maybe it'll get me to move up. What do you think I should be looking at in terms of the differences between the two exams? Why would I choose one versus the other in terms of making that decision?

Matt (07:24): Sure. I think you have to look out your technical background and, you know, your career path, both where you want to go and where you've been. I think that one of the biggest challenges, and I know for me personally I saw this was the exam is called PE Sybil Water Resources and Environmental. Mm-Hmm. . And then there's the PE environmental exam. So at first thought I thought, oh, wow, you know, I can take the PE environmental exam, I only have to study half the material, only be test on half of it. Right? And that is, is not the case if you dive into the exam specs. So there's some differences there. The environmental exam includes a lot of air quality which can be very technical for students. A lot of waste management topics, environmental health and safety. We'll discuss that, you know, later in the episode here.

Matt (08:07): But I think that you need to look at the exam specs and reflect on, you know, we have in our civil engineering careers, or maybe, you know, some students may be taking a PE exam and have a different discipline, environmental engineering degree, or mechanical engineering, et cetera. You know, what you took for your electives and where you feel your strong suits are from a technical standpoint, which you've worked on in, you know, your career, what you've worked on you know, on projects you've worked on in school group projects, real world, you know, what have you. And then also where you wanna go in your career. And then also where you wanna focus your study time to learn, no matter which one you choose, you're gonna be spending a lot of time on these topics study. So you know, if structures aren't really your thing, you might be more inclined to looking at the PE environmental exam because there's just, you know, less emphasis on structural versus, you know, air quality. If you really struggled with that class or you don't know those topics and you don't foresee yourself needing them in the future, maybe that drives you back to the PE civil water resources side. So that would be my first approach to deciding on which exam to take.

Isaac (09:13): Okay. Well, yeah, that sounds like there's if anyone's debating which one to do, you should definitely dive into the specifications and kind of look at the topics that maybe are more applicable to you. I, another question maybe in general is like, what, what do you see the specific gaps? Maybe you've touched on this just as we were talking that, you know, with the increase of storm events and, and flooding, are there any other gaps that the creation of these two particular exams you feel aimed to fill a gap in our industry?

Matt (09:50): Sure. I think that creating the different environmental and the water resources exam practice exams aims to fill the gaps by assessing engineers on more focused industry specific categories that they'll be working on, kind of like we talked about in the last, you know, little answer there. Ultimately, you know, this ensures as the engineer is working on in environmental or in water resources, has the technical proficiencies to succeed in the projects that they're going to be working on daily. That they're responsible for ensuring public health and safety for et cetera. And, you know, allowing them to maybe narrow their focus a little bit onto the topics that are most applicable in their career.

Isaac (10:32): Okay. Well, let's not to get too off focus here, but I, I'm curious about your own experience yourself. What, what was your job and career like that made you decide which exam that you wanted to go with? And maybe even touch on why you dived into the CFM again, and you, I know you've probably mentioned that in the past, but for any new listeners out there, they probably could hear that again.

Matt (10:59): Sure. So I think on one of the previous podcasts I was on, we talked about my first major was bio pre-med. And I was actually studying for the mcat and had graduated with my bio degree and was studying for the MCAT and planned on applying to med school and go that route. And at the time I was interning at a state environmental agency and then a full-time position came up and ended up accepting that role and then saw in order to move along in that realm, in that field, I would need a civil engineering degree. And I went back to school at night for five, six years and earned my civil engineering degree. Passed my pe excuse me, my FE exam. And then later on passed my PE exam as a student of civil engineering academy in water resources, which is where we came into contact.

Matt (11:49): So career wise at the environmental agency, I started out as an intern in water quality monitoring and then transitioned into air quality permitting. Visited a lot of very cool manufacturing facilities and processes. We looked at metal cans beginning processed food processing facilities drywall raw goods some government industrial complex facilities, and the air pollution control technologies at those facilities and working on permits and keeping everything within environmental regulations. When I was in that role, then transitioned into overseeing the municipal storm water program for our region at the time. And ensuring compliance with stormwater erosion, sediment control, ENS drainage, recurrent flooding, and all throughout too, also served a collateral duty as the assistant regional state safety officer, and also on the pollution response and environmental preparedness team after hours team responding out to chemical spills providing, you know, technical guidance for the fire department on scene for chemical spills, big fires other environmental incidents and remediation.

Matt (13:03): So in that time, you know, learned a lot about the environmental work and then transitioned more to local government where I served as the city stormwater engineer. And did a lot of that same work as far as the stormwater erosion, sediment control stormwater retention ponds, BNP, overseeing the designs and compliance with specs and standards for state and municipal requirements. And as well as, you know, looking at environmental illicit discharges. We did a little work with the environmental crimes task force, kind of got to put on our detective hat doing different, you know, site visits and surveillance on, you know, illegal discharges into the stormwater system. And also did a lot of source tracking with infiltration and inflow with the sanitary sewer system infiltrating, or excuse me, stormwater system infiltrating into sanitary sewer system and vice versa eliminate a lot of cross connections with the local water treatment authority.

Matt (14:03): So looking into all of that, that was, that was the daily work. And then in 2021 here in the state of Virginia, we had a new program come out, the Community Flood Preparedness Fund. And that required a certified floodplain manager and a locality wide resilience plan to apply for funding for drainage projects, flood control projects, things like that. Things that I needed and projects that I managed on the stormwater side that could needed funding to really advance further into design and development versus initial concept. And, you know, we could benefit from the funding, but we did not have a flood plan manager in our locality or a resilience plan. So I had applied for a grant to get us both a resilience plan, help us develop a resilience plan, as well as allow for the funding for one person, two people, excuse me, to become a certified floodplain manager in the locality.

Matt (15:04): So it would be able to apply the grant. One of them being myself. I put together a program and in addition to my nor normal job duties, and at the time too, I was also studying for the PE exam and took me about six months to PA study and then pass the certified floodplain manager exam. And that let us be able to apply for other grants to fund projects. Since then, I think we have developed about $3 million of grant awards and opportunities to fund fund flood control projects. And, you know, again, the increasing severity and intensity of the storms, you know, areas are flooding, more and more projects are, you know, getting added to the list of things that need to be done across the country. You know, each locality, you know, we attend a lot of conferences and a lot of different regional groups and, you know, everybody's kind of in the same boat of, you know, a lot of drainage projects, a lot of needs, and aging infrastructure and, you know, funds are always limited.

Matt (15:58): So that's, that's the career that I took from there when I was looking at the PE exam and time to take it, you know, I was looking at, again, the civil water resources versus the environmental and you know, had kind of had the same crossroads and had to reach out to a couple friends who had taken it. And they had advised me on, you know, looking at the specs, seeing what you were good at. You know, the environmental, the air quality, and some of the land stuff. And environmental health and safety can a lot of times trip people up. You know, it's not really taught that much in schools. It's limited kind of a niche market. Mm-Hmm. . So, you know, just take a look at those exam specs and see which spoke to you. I ended up choosing the Sybil Water Resources PE exam because of my experience. And also I noticed too, one, us at Civil Engineering Academy don't have a course for the environmental just yet. And then teaser, teaser. And then in addition there just weren't as many resources out there at the time for the environmental as there were for the water resources. So that's what drove my decision. And then ultimately what's kind of led me back to create, you know, our practice exam here that we're talking about today.

Isaac (17:10): Yeah. I mean, based on everything you've just shared, it sounds like you have a ton of experience in water resources and, and environmental. So both those components you mentioned here at Civil Engineering Academy, one of the gaps that we saw that we had is, is the environmental piece. So Matt's been working on a couple different things, but one is that, that, that is already released is our environmental PE exam. So why don't you talk about what went into the creation of that, why you thought that would be a good resource?

Matt (17:43): Sure. So again, you know, looking at the exam specs and looking at those gaps, and I think that definitely there's some overlap between water resources and the environmental exams. And I think though that there's still, well, there's an overlap, there's still areas of not an overlap, right? Mm-Hmm. and a lack of information. So by looking at the exam specs and creating an exam that's tailored to specifically the PE environmental specs, we can help students focus on questions and topics that they're going to encounter on exam day. A lot of these exams, you know, we see it with the Certified Flow Play Manager Review course and that practice exam, you know, we hear a lot of students, Hey, I took the exam and it helped me really narrow my focus on what to study from or identify weak areas. You know, I, I wouldn't wanna see a student ace the practice exam.

Matt (18:38): I'd wanna see them be able to use it as a resource to guide them to brush up on whatever they need to, and then go in and ace their exam on, you know, game day, regardless if it's the PE civil exam, the CFM exam or the environmental exam. And I think that by offering the environmental exam, again, we just reach a whole nother group of students who are taking that exam and may not have the information readily available out there to really guide and focus their study and ultimately save them time and set them up for success on exam day.

Isaac (19:10): Awesome. Yeah, and if anyone wants that, you can find [email protected] to go check that out. Under our exams, you'll be able to find that exam if you're in the hunt to pass your environmental PE exam. So why don't you touch a little bit on the fe environmental exam? 'cause There is one for that. Is there a difference between those two and maybe you can tease what you're working on for that?

Matt (19:34): Sure. So we are wrapping up our SE environmental exam as well with that similar to the Civil FE and pe, right? You know, the FE is kind of the, the baby sibling of the pe. So typically, you know, questions tend to be a little bit easier. They tend to be maybe not as many steps involved in solving, but also you, not to say they're easy, you know, there's not tricks and, you know, different, you know, things that you need to come into the exam knowing the FE environmental, much like the FE civil you know, you have a specific reference handbook. Something I think that's important to mention too is that there's a separate handbook for both PE Environmental and FE Environmental. It, it does not follow the reference handbook from ce, deputy Sybil Disciplines do. So if you're taking those exams, make sure you download that resource and be solving all your problems using you know, the FE reference handbook for environmental, if you're taking the FE exam or the PE Environmental Reference Handbook if you're taking the PE environmental exam.

Matt (20:38): So it's always a good, good place to start as well as, you know, your, your usual calculators, check the NIC'S website, make sure you're using something in compliance with that. But, you know, if we look at those exams and, you know, problem solving, you know, the fe you know, it's a longer exam, you know, 110 questions versus 80 on the pe. And then, you know, again, same thing, right? It is a lot of the topics too on the fe, you're gonna see, again on the pe you, maybe it's more advanced format, maybe it's not. But you know, the FE is sort of the warmup for the PE and kind of starts focusing in addition to a lot of topics both on the FE and the pe. You know, you're given the resource of the handbooks, but a lot of the topics you're required to note things cold coming into the exam, they're not explicitly in the handbook.

Matt (21:25): Especially too on the PE environmental exam, there's a lot of regulations that you need to know, and they're not gonna be in the handbook. You know, you're expected to know them through your work experience, through your studying, through your, you know, outside knowledge somewhere along the way that you picked up or were exposed to. So it's important that, you know, a lot of the regulations and, and the overall, I'm thinking Clean Air Act, clean Water Act, a lot of our, you know hazardous materials, guidelines, things like that. So there's a whole set of information you need to know outside the reference handbook that you may not know that you need to know specifically until exam day. But we try to lessen that and introduce you to some of those topics to get your practice with it in both the FE Environmental Practice exam, as well as the PE Environmental Practice exam.

Isaac (22:13): Awesome. All right. So, you know, FE exams in development, PE exams out, ready to go for you. You're also working on a course for the environmental PE exam. Could you tease that a little bit?

Matt (22:27): Sure. so working on the PE Environmental Review course very similar to what students have seen with our PE review courses for PE civil again, you know, and there's overlap with civil water resources and environmental, right? The, those circles overlap. For sure. You know, we have a lot of drinking water stuff, storm water, you know, Darcy Wach equation is Darcy Wach equation, whether you're in water resources or environmental. But then there's also, you know, areas that are specific to the PE environmental. You have the air quality, you have a lot more emphasis on water quality. You have a lot more emphasis on Clean Water Act cra clean Air Act environmental health and safety, flammability noise, pollution health, you know, chronic daily intake, cancer, slope factor, all of these special topics that environmental brings that you know, are not covered in a water resources course.

Matt (23:30): So the PE environmental course looks to help students get educated on those topics. We follow the NIS exam specs chapter by chapter, module by module very similar to our civil format, like we said. And it is taking a little bit longer than expected to develop the course, but we are aiming to have that out quarter one of 2025. So I'll be very busy till then, but look forward to reaching out and connecting with a whole nother group of students when we launch our environmental course. It's very exciting. And now I'm gonna be a first offering press. I know, know, we're excited about that.

Isaac (24:08): Yeah, that's awesome. Thank you for sharing that, teasing it. For those that are interested in that, you can go to a general website where we, you can sign up to be the first to know about it. We set this up for our courses as we're updating the PE courses, but it'll be the same thing. So go to civil engineering academy.com/pe update, and you can go sign up, be the first to know when this thing goes live for our environmental PE course. We're excited to share that with everybody. So if you're in the hunt for that, stay tuned because that's coming. So thank you for sharing those details. Maybe as we wrap this up, I, I just wanna touch on what's your opinion of the outlook for environmental professionals? What's the need? What's kind of the, you know there good salaries here? What's the, what's the job outlook?

Matt (24:57): Sure. So the job outlook for environmental professionals, I would say very robust and increasing as we go. You know, there's increased frequency and duration and intensity of the weather events, like we've talked about, you know, a few times now in our discussion. You have more stringent environmental regulations, you know, that that's causing, you know, people to facilities and industries have to comply with new regulations, increased regulations, right? Meet new ways, new control technologies to control pollutants. So you know, that that's increasing, that's gonna lead to, you know, more and more jobs need for technical experts, people who know these topics, you know, inside and out. We have demands in areas, environmental consulting, renewable energy and pollution control technologies. Then we also, you know, look to the emerging fields. You know, climate resilience is something that has really become a forefront of discussion in the last 10 years or so, especially after Hurricane Sandy and a lot of, you know, fallout and, you know, subsequent needs and projects from that. You have, you know, carbon management, sustainable development, biofuels are all emerging industries. You know, that, that are just, you know, at, at their very infancy of, you know, potential and what may be with these industries. So, safe to say that, you know, the, the environmental professional job outlook is, you know, robust. It's increasing, and I'll probably continue to increase, you know, as we move forward here in time.

Isaac (26:32): Awesome. Well, thanks for sharing that. I know at one point I was an environmental person. Don't, I mean, I don't talk about that too often, but when I started my internship, it was with an environmental company working at a, at a place called the American Barrel, which was which was a site where a bunch of oil was dumped and had to be cleaned up. So anyway, I, I do have a good sense of environmental work and I think it's a really good outlook on where things are headed in the future and still a very desirable spot to be. So if you're headed that route, definitely consider it. And you're gonna need to pass your exams and you're gonna check out civil engineering academy.com to get some help there. So, Matt, appreciate you jumping on and sharing your experience, sharing what's coming out here in the near future, what is out now. If anybody wanted to chat with you about the environmental PE exam, what's the best way to reach you?

Matt (27:32): Sure. you can reach me at matt MAT [email protected] and then also check out civil engineering academy.com/pe update for an update on the review course. And then also head on over to civil engineering academy.com for the PE Environmental Practice exam. And very soon here, we'll also have the FE Environmental Practice exam up there as well. So that's how you can get in touch with me again, [email protected]. If you need to get in touch with me directly, I'd be happy to answer any questions or connect with you.

Isaac (28:10): Awesome. Thanks Matt. Appreciate you doing this and we'll chat with you in the future.

Matt (28:14): Thanks, Isaac. Likewise, enjoyed our conversation and look forward to continuing success and working together and serving all our students. So thanks again.

Isaac (28:23): See ya.

Speaker 3 (28:23): Bye.