Isaac (00:10): What is up everybody! Isaac here with Civil Engineering Academy. Thanks for joining us today on today's podcast. I bring in Christy Jean. She is amazing. She is from Georgia. She's actually originally from Korea, got her degree, came to Georgia, got her master's, got her PhD, has a passion about transportation planning as well as engineering, as well as sustainability. And all of these things have intersected for her, and she does amazing work in Georgia. She was actually rated one of the 100 most influential women in engineering by Engineering Georgia in 2023 and 2024, and is amazing. So I wanted to bring her onto the show and talk about her experiences. What got her into planning? What is she doing now in Georgia? She's published papers, she's written books. She kind of does it all. And so I wanted to bring her on to share her experience with all of us.

(00:59): Maybe you're considering going into transportation, whether you're going into maybe engineering or into the planning side. Those are two different kind of realms to go into. Maybe you're thinking you don't know much about planning, and so this would be a good episode to hear about what that's all about. We also talk about the issues that she's facing, what are the current challenges in the world of planning as well as transportation engineering and where the future is headed. So it's a fascinating episode and I really enjoyed my interview with her. So I will go ahead and shut up. Let me get to my interview with Christy. I think you're going to enjoy this. And hey, if you need help on your journey to become a professional engineer, whether that's to pass your FE or to pass your PE, we are definitely here to support you on that journey.

(01:41): Come check us out at civilengineeringacademy.com. We have courses, exams, or if you just want to reach out via email, we want to hear from you and we'd love to give you a shout out too if you pass those exams. We'll put you on our podcast and give you a shout out. Let us celebrate with you. So without further ado, let me get to my interview with Christie. It's coming up right after this.

(02:01): All right, Christy, we are rocking and rolling on the Civil Engineering Academy podcast. I appreciate you joining me today and doing this with me.

Christy (02:08): Hi. Hi Isaac. Hi everyone.

Isaac (02:09): This is awesome. We kind of connected over LinkedIn. I think what you have going on in your career and your life is amazing and I wanted to bring you on and just talk about your experiences working in the world of engineering and what you do. So maybe to kick this off, maybe you could do a quick introduction of yourself. What got you into this world? Maybe describe what you do today and where you came from. How did you end up here?

Christy (02:33): Yeah, that's a great question. So I started my undergrad in urban planning and engineering. I always liked math and science and I thought urban engineering and sounded fancy. So I didn't even know that engineering was doing transportation, environmental, but it sounded good to me. However, I was sitting in traffic when I was very little. I grew up in Seoul, South Korea and had a notorious traffic congestion, like nothing compared to here, maybe compared to New York and LA maybe. And I was sitting in a car and I was thinking why the roads are all open and cars are stuck at an intersection. So I got very curious, but I don't think that's probably one thing that brought me to civil engineering. But anyway, urban planning and engineering. Then I came to Atlanta, Georgia in 2003 to study civil engineering, transportation system. I just loved traveled and I just love to meet people and I love to have some impact to people and community.

(03:37): So I really like civil engineering and especially transportation systems. That's what got me here.

Isaac (03:43): Wow. So there's probably a lot to unpack there. So in Korea, you came to the US to further study engineering. You have a lot of credentials after your name, and I'm curious which one of those have you felt has made the biggest impact in maybe your career?

Christy (04:02): That's a very interesting question. That's a very interesting question. I have an 11-year-old son and he sometimes makes me fun of me. I mean, I showed him LinkedIn and said, he calls me my name like Christy Jean, PhD, PE. What's all that after your name? He makes fun of me. Well, I would say PhD and PE probably because those are the two credentials that took me the longest. PhD took me four and a half years, five years, and PE was also a very big achievement for me.

Isaac (04:38): Right. And we're a big proponent of getting that PE. It's a challenging exam to do. I'm assuming you had to pass the FE too. Did you do that when you came over here and went to, you were in Georgia and you took it there? So that was probably a whole nother story, huh?

Christy (04:54): That's very interesting story. I don't know, I need to share this with you, but yeah, it's okay. So I didn't have to take FE and I was an exception because. So I mean, here's something I learned throughout my career. So my undergrad was in urban planning and engineering back in South Korea,

(05:14): And I have another master's degree in planning, urban planning and transportation planning. So both of those were engineering and planning. But when I came to US, I have master's and PhD in civil engineering. So I was able to take PE exam without FE exam, but I still have to flew to Michigan because I have a foreign degree in Georgia. It makes it very hard for anyone to take PE without FE. So I said, okay, I have a two years, couple years of experience and what about just flew to Michigan. And I took the exam very luckily. I mean, I was not positive that I will be able to pass because I felt really, really bad and I was 99% sure that I failed. But luckily somehow I passed that pretty sure I probably just passed that cutline. Anyways, so I was a Michigan PE for maybe four or five, six years, but I really wanted Georgia PE because that's where I practice.

(06:21): So I was like, I learned the Georgia PE. To get a Georgia PE, you need to take FE. And like I said, my undergrad was not in civil. It was in urban engineering. So it has environmental engineering, transportation engineering piece, but I didn't learn anything about structural engineering, geotech, things like that. So I was back in 2000, maybe 2012 or around that time, I actually wrote a letter. So I applied. I probably wrote a letter to Georgia governor because I think it was 2010, I was named as one of top 20 under 40.

Isaac (07:05): Yes, you were.

Christy (07:07): I took advantage of it. I was like, okay, how about just try? I really didn't think that will work, but I tried it. I sent a letter to the governor's office and there was a committee that decides that kind of things. I said, I just brought, okay, this is what I did so far. I wrote a dissertation and publications and this is what I do and I became that. Would you consider me giving me an exception of not taking FE? And they said yes. So that's how I became Georgia. So I'm forever grateful for the current Georgia governor Kemp. He was the secretary of the state then, and that was his call and his committee. So I really, really am grateful for Governor Kemp.

Isaac (07:56): That is an amazing story. I had no idea we were going to go there with that, but congratulations on getting the FE waived. I know a lot of engineers that struggled to get that waived, so that's amazing that you were able to do that. And you were a top engineer. I mean, it makes sense that would happen. So that's a neat story.

Christy (08:19): I got lucky. I got lucky.

Isaac (08:22): Well, that's great. So now you're in your career, you have over what, 24 years in your career doing this now between research and practice. And I'm curious, looking back, has there been some impactful projects or experiences that you've had looking back in those 24 years that you could share with us?

Christy (08:43): Yeah, I'm thinking two, probably one completed and another one that's ongoing right now. So I've worked on this project. This is a northwest corridor express lane project. This is 30 miles north of Atlanta areas and adding express lanes, managed lanes, and this is reversible lanes. And that really changed the commute time and the safety and mobility of that really important corridor in Atlanta. So that was one of the largest project in the history of Georgia. And I was one of the test lead for traffic operations and traffic design, signing and marking signal planes and traffic operations. So a lot of people after that project was open, they said that transformed their commute and that's really, really rewarding. And the second project I wanted to mention is that I am managing a project for GDOT. This is on-call services for their resilience improvement plan and carbon reduction strategies.

(09:54): And this is where my passion and interests are since my doctoral program time, my dissertation was on sustainability, sustainable transportation systems. And after I graduated, I did not have really find an opportunity to work in that field. So I learned to lots of different things, traffic operations, safety. Safety is still very, very top priority for me, but this was really one of the first chances for me to really work on this field. And I love what I do. I love my clients and the impact of what I do, coming up with ideas and solutions for GDAT to prepare their infrastructure, civil infrastructure more resilient to extreme weather events. It has been really, really rewarding. It has been very challenging, but we're all learning a lot. And the impact of what we are doing right now, it's really big and I'm just very grateful that I have this chance and have that relationship with the client.

Isaac (11:01): That's amazing. I'm curious, you touched on sustainability, which is kind of where your passion is, and you've been in this career for a while, but has that term sustainability changed or taken on different meaning throughout your career? 20 years ago, it probably meant something different than what that means today. And I'm just curious what your thoughts are on that.

Christy (11:22): Yeah, I think that's a very interesting question. So when I started, my supervisor, she's an amazing person, my mentor, life mentor. She got this sustainability project from NSF. So she hired me as her very first doctoral student. So some of our work started 2003, 2005, we looked at definition because many people haven't heard about sustainability

(11:52): Development. And the definition, one of my first paper was to what is the definition of sustainability? How do you define sustainability? And it's very generic. At that time, I mean still the umbrella definition of sustainability is meeting the needs of current generation without compromising the needs of future generation. So that is the umbrella definition of sustainability. But under it, there's three pillars, really three important pillars. One is economic sustainability, financial sustainability, and there are social sustainability that's more like safety and equity, accessibility, health, things like that. And their environmental perspective, that is resiliency, climate resiliency, and environmental integrity, mitigating environmental impact, negative impact like noises, air pollutions and things like that. So those are the three pillars. So I really don't think that fundamental definition of sustainability has changed. There's still the umbrella definition. Yes, we are trying to protect the planet for the next generation, still the same.

(13:15): Economic, social and environmental pillars, I think to still matter.

Isaac (13:22): Yes, very much. And it's interesting to hear how that definition has been tweaked a little bit and I love your description of that. So that's amazing. Earlier you described at the very beginning of this your passion towards planning as a kid sitting in a car and traffic and such, and that passion has kept you in this industry for a while. I think there's a lot of engineers that may not know exactly maybe what transportation planning is or why they would maybe be interested in following that route. And I'm curious if you could touch on that. I know as a kid it drove you there, but what's kept you there and why would someone else maybe interested in following that route in their career?

Christy (14:07): Yeah, thanks for asking that. So to me, engineering, transportation planning and engineering is to improve the quality of life of people. So because to me, transportation system connects people to opportunities, to schools, work, healthcare. We as a transportation planner and engineers, we build rosion highways, bike lanes and pedestrian sidewalks to connect people with people and people with opportunities. So that's how I make the most sense of my work that's so meaningful to me. So transportation planning, think of this way. So right now we have such population employment. In terms of blueprint, transportation planning means you look ahead 10 years, 20 years, up to 30 years. So now we're looking at 2050, about 25 years from now. Where do you think people leave? Where do you think people work? And where do people go to school and other things, entertain? Depending on the growth of population and employment and how they leave work and play, the version highways need to serve their needs.

(15:37): So yeah, basically where do you need version highway? Where do you need trails? Where do you need bike lanes and sidewalks? Where do you need transit systems, rails and bus systems to meet their needs in terms of transportation, safety, and mobility? So I don't know if that's easier

Isaac (15:58): Way. Those are all good things. I mean, everyone wants to be connected, opportunities, people, and planning is in the middle of all of that. So I think that's fascinating. I'm curious, what's been the biggest challenge in your career that you've been faced with? Whether it's a project or an opportunity that you had to overcome or a challenge that you had to overcome, what's kind of a challenging thing that you've had to deal with?

Christy (16:26): Yeah, I think engineering. Well, I mean, for the most part, I had a lot of fun. I'm having a lot of fun, but of course there's some challenges. Let's see. So the projects, the current project has been very challenging. I mean, now I've been working on this project for two years and I built great relationship with my clients and I know what they want and I know what I want. But before this project, I really haven't had a very big opportunity to work on climate resiliency. It's emerging area, it's new. I mean, I'm very confident in other areas of traffic planning and engineering, such as traffic operations and safety. I mean, that's what I had worked on for the 15 years, for the last 15 years. But this project was really innovative and emerging areas that we all have to learn together. And what's most challenging was that you have to work together with different disciplines.

(17:31): So for example, within GDOT, usually I only work with traffic operations folks. I mean, they're all my friends and I know those people and I know the subject matter, so I'm very comfortable and confident. But resiliency, climate resiliency especially, I mean, I really have to touch on every single disciplines in GDOT, for example, version highway bridges, materials, program management, water resources and environmental. I mean, every single offices, resiliency means something different to them. And I have to understand what resiliency means to them. I really have to bring them together into a table so that we all talk about resiliency because resilience is not something they do on a daily basis because they have most pressing things for each office. Bridge office has their own goals, roads and highways, things like traffic operation. But we all have to agree on the urgency of climate resiliency. If we do not invest on resiliency and make our infrastructure resilient when time comes, if they're extreme weather events and we've seen it the last couple of years, it's been getting more and more severe and more frequent.

(18:51): We just have to understand the risk of not investing in resiliency fast and in a very effective way would cost a lot to our community and the infrasructure system that are very, very expensive. And also we need to help people and their communities to be able to evacuate safely. So my challenge is really breaking the silos because a lot of time. So I am a plan engineer. That is kind of a new term because I'm a planner, but also an engineer and they found a plan engineer. So planners and engineers really do not speak the same language. It's like maybe any other field, so planners and engineers. But even within engineers, there are so many disciplines and there's so many silos and breaking the silo and bringing everyone together to one place to talk about a common goal. And I think that was challenging, but it's also very, very impactful and meaningful to me.

Isaac (19:59): So in Georgia, you used the word resiliency and that's also kind of a word you hear a lot in engineering these days. But in Georgia, does that mean you're dealing with more hurricanes, natural disasters, or in terms of where you're at, what does that resiliency term mean for you?

Christy (20:19): Yes. So resiliency, there's natural disasters and there are also human disasters, but right now we're focusing more on natural disasters, including mostly extreme weather events such as flooding. Flooding is the most pressing hazard for Georgia. We have coastal flooding and river rain flooding, and we do have some wildfires and there's some heat. We have a lot of heat and there's urban heat and rural heat issues. So flooding and heat probably are the two biggest threats for Georgia, but we are looking at some other threats as well because yeah, if you're looking at California and Colorado, it's very different. There are wildfire,

Isaac (21:05): Right?

Christy (21:07): There's much flooding. I don't know where you are, but yeah, it's very different.

Isaac (21:10): I'm in Utah, so we're close to the Denver area. So you hit it. The wildfires is the big one. And Christy, I discovered there's probably some initials you haven't gotten yet, which is certified floodplain manager, CFM.

Christy (21:26): Okay. You can get some more. I was thinking, I don't need anymore. I don't need anymore. And yes, I took PTOE the last time, I don't know, five years ago, and I swore during the exam, this is the last exam I sit in. I have enough. And I realized that my brain is not as fast as it used to be. So I said, okay, I don't need it anymore.

Isaac (21:53): Well, it's very impressive. I think it's super impressive. I was curious, just talking about planning and such, everything seems to be about electrification of vehicles. Our whole lives are that way. Has there been a shift towards, in terms of planning or engineering of electrification, how has that impacted planning or engineering? It seems like you do both because you're now a planning engineer. Or what other challenges that you see looking ahead that planners are facing in transportation's world?What does a planning engineer look like in 20 years from now? What are those challenges?

Christy (22:31): So yeah, electrification, that is one of my passion also because that also helps with carbon reduction and that will eventually ultimately help mitigate climate events also. So far, I drive a Tesla and they changed my life. I love, love, love driving electric car. I did a couple studies a couple of years ago for small communities to develop a plan for EV charging infrastructure. So coming up with a network for small communities and we estimated how many electric vehicles you have now and in 10 years, five years, 10 years, 15 years, how many of electric vehicles you will have short and long term, and do you have enough capacity of charging infrastructure? We worked with a smaller niche firm to be able to estimate that. So I mean that was very meaningful and impactful. And I really do think this is going to change how we travel in terms of fuels, the type of fuel we use, because there is electric vehicle that is one piece, but there are two other important pieces that in the next future of transportation.

(23:58): So you mentioned the electricity, electric vehicle. There are two other big components that I believe that will transform how we travel. One is autonomous, autonomous vehicle. So you see Waymo, Texas, and there's autonomous vehicles and even Tesla, if you pay 99 bucks per month, the fully automated driving and it's amazing. I'm not paying that yet, but I might soon.

Isaac (24:27): You're testing it out.

Christy (24:29): I'm testing it out because they give me trial every now and then. I say I'm okay with that, but yeah, and that's amazing. The technology is there, but the policy and insurance policy and everything else is not ready. That's right. The technology is here, but we need to be ready to be able to adopt autonomous vehicle. And that is a second element. Third is it's connectivity. I mean connected vehicles. So connected vehicles to vehicle, vehicles to infrastructure. So there is a wireless roadside units that transforms information among different vehicles and among infrastructure and cars. So that connectivity, connected vehicles. So for example, if you have an app on your mobile phone and you have your phone, you usually use phone as a navigator, right? If you install a certain app, that app talks with roadside units that's installed along the roadway and that can detect pedestrian bikers and other cars at the intersection.

(25:43): So it'll give you warning, let's say if you're driving 45 miles per hour on a local road, if there's a biker or pedestrian approaching to intersection, so if you're going to that speed, going at that speed, then you will meet with this pedestrian. It'll give you a warning. So be careful, pedestrian approaching, bike approaching, bike approaching. So that's like a talking to each other. The cars can talk each other, cars and pedestrian, every single components can be the connection point. Everything is like even trash can be a receptor or traffic light can be a receptor, traffic light and person, biker. So those three things I really do think will transform how we travel.

Isaac (26:37): I have some questions about that because I mean, I see that coming. A lot of people like their independence of driving a vehicle, starting, stopping, owning it, getting the fill. And to sell the benefits of going fully autonomous seems to be that if everyone had it, we would all be safer. Cars would talk to each other. But I could see also that some people may push back on it wanting their own independence to drive their own vehicles. So I don't know how you navigate that or if the government has to start stepping in and saying that every vehicle has to be able to talk to one another at some point, do you see that all colliding or intersecting at some point?

Christy (27:24): Yeah, I do think that's a very valid concern. And yeah, we think that transition period, like you said, if 100% autonomous vehicle, that's safer, 100% safer. But the transition period where there are human vehicles and there are autonomous vehicles together on the road, that is even more unpredictable. So in the transition period, one of the solutions or one of the alternative solution is that I don't know if Utah has toll lanes, those managed lanes that are barrier- separated from separate ways.

Isaac (28:05): Not yet. They have HOV lanes. They don't have anything in toll yet. Well, I mean, it is a toll if you're driving single riders.

Christy (28:14): Right, right, right. So in the beginning, something like the managed lane, those are barrier separated or physically separated, managed lane, toll lanes or HOV lanes. Those lanes, you can only use. I mean, this is just my idea. Managed lane can be a pilot, right? Those managed lane can be a pilot for autonomous vehicles. All human other vehicles cannot use it. That way you can physically separate those out. But I agree with you that the transition period will not be easy. And we're doing lots of pilot studies and actual pilot projects, but it will take some time. And like you said, most of people own a smartphone right now, but I don't know, maybe there are some people still are reluctant to own a smartphone, right? So I think it's going to take some time.

Isaac (29:10): It always takes time for adoption for new technologies, huh? So I see that being the same. Well, I don't want to eat up too much of our time. I appreciate you doing this. I maybe have a few questions. Maybe we could do a rapid fire question answer a little bit. One of the things I admire about you is that you're a leader in this industry, a woman leader in this industry, and I'm curious if you have any advice for women that are trained to enter into this field that is typically male dominated in the civil engineering world.

Christy (29:42): Yes. Okay. There are three things I would like to give advice for. The first of all, know yourself. Self-awareness is really important. It's kind of hard when you are in a minority in the room. Only or a few women in the room. But knowing your strength and building onto your top strength instead of focusing on your weaknesses to make your weakness to average level, I always say find what you like really and what's really meaningful to you and then build onto your top strength. And there are many other tools and we can talk about it, but I use some tools and my mentor at Georgia Tech suggested that you can find your top strengths and then build onto it. That's the first thing I'd like to recommend. Number two, something I really find it rewarding is that volunteer and really, really be proactive in professional organizations.

(30:51): That's something I started doing since 2017 and 2018. It's one thing that changed my life also. I make friends. In my professional organizations, I started volunteering and then you become friends with many other peers and leaders in the industry and that's how you really build your trust, your reputation and your credibility. And then there's some people believe in you even before you do. So that's how you can build your competence in finding your voice. So I really, really recommend that you find an opportunity, organization that ideally aligns the organization that has goals that aligns with your personal and professional goals that will be the best. But yeah, always value human network and communication, human relationship and network. And number three, I would like to say learn to be yourself. It can be daunting when you're young, when you're in 20s and 30s. I think I just learned to be myself completely maybe about four or five years ago and I just turned 50.

(32:20): So it's hard, very daunting, but that authenticity and self-confidence is really the key. But for me to do that, you have to find your voice and you have to find your people. When you develop trusted relationship with people in the same industry, you can learn to voice. You can show your voice and learn to communicate effectively. So really be yourself, find your voice and make friends and have fun. That's what I want to say. That's great advice. Those are the things I've been doing and that work. And there's no other way I could do it because I can never not be myself. That's my nature. So I mean that's what I did, but that is really some of the keys, I think.

Isaac (33:16): Well, I love it. Christy, this has been fantastic. I have a lot more to ask, but I want to be respectful of our time. So I just appreciate you sharing your advice with us, giving us a glimpse of what's going on in your world. And for those that don't know about planning or engineering in the transportation world, hopefully this pulled back the curtain a little bit, but appreciate you jumping on the show and sharing your wisdom with us and hopefully we will chat in the future.

Christy (33:39): Oh, thank you so much, Isaac, and thanks for having me. It's been an honor to participate as a podcast interview. Yeah. Thank you.

Isaac (33:48): You're a pro. Thank you.

Christy (33:50): Thanks.

Isaac (33:51): See You.